Agender Agenda Addendum
This addendum was a long time coming and it still only scratches the surface of the sheer mountain of FAQs we’ve gotten since releasing The Agender Agenda. Though I hope the answers are informative and may even articulate the feelings of other agender/nonbinary/trans folk, these opinions should only be taken as my personal perspective on the issues.
Anyway, hope you like it and perhaps there will be more to say on the topic in the not-as-distant-as-before future!
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Thanks for clarifying the pronoun thing! I remembered you saying that you didn’t have a preference in ‘The Agender Agenda,’ but in ‘Queers In The Wild,’ you listed ‘They’ as your pronoun. I figured that it had changed over time, but it’s nice to get a definitive answer.
Of course, if I ever meet you in person, I WILL use every opportunity to call you “Reverend Stiffler,” just because that IS kinda funny…
Regarding the last question, when being gender-nonspecific about the identified party, I’m partial to “gynosexual” and “androsexual” (“bisexual” of course applies regardless). But having read that article about the person who’s most attracted to pre-op transmen, I realize that even those terms have limits. At which point I throw up my hands and refer back to the Reverend Gordon Atkinson: “What need has God for categories? Why sort and catalog a collection when you know and can describe every individual item?”
(And, also, to the august personage in my Gravatar: “Screw labels!”)
I was about to write something along those llines!
I came here to suggest pretty much the same thing, only with gynephilic and androphilic. The -philic / -phile suffix works better for me because it encompasses both sexual and romantic attractions.
You mentioned you only use your “dead name” for legal purposes, but you just listed the honorific you prefer, not the first name you want to be addressed by. Is it because they didn’t let you change your first name? Or just because you haven’t felt the need to do so? I wonder if changing the family name is more difficult than the first name, I need to change it but for different reasons.
From my experience changing the last name is not more difficult but has more complicated outcomes afterwards (such as all sorts of legal codes and numbers which need changing). Where I live, at least.
I have a question regarding this strip.
Do you really own this dressing gown?
I do, actually, and the chair as well!
I could go through the process of legally changing my first name to something gender-neutral, but I haven’t really given it much thought. Despite not using my first name for anything (unless I have to), I still have a certain amount of attachment to it. For me, personally, a different first name wouldn’t necessarily feel right, either. Using my last name as my primary identity is both comfortable to me and a name I’ve been attached to all of my life.
Not to mention that the process differs wildly depending on where one is. Some places require one to publish the name change in the newspaper, some don’t, and some leave it up to the judge hearing the case, for instance. Thankfully, the judge in my case not only said that I didn’t have to publish, but also decided the case without me actually having to appear in court.
And that’s just changing the name legally. Changing it on each and every piece of identification is a migraine of another caliber. I still haven’t gotten my name changed on my birth certificate because I only want to argue with the state of Texas once (seriously, we moved when I was only a couple months old, so if I had been conceived a couple months later, I’d have been born in Germany 🙁 ). Still, at least Texas allows birth certificate changes, Tennessee is (at last check) the only state that doesn’t allow the birth certificate to be changed at all.
And that, Beatrice Gamba, is just a slight taste of the whole process. I believe the process for changing for changing last names is the same for changing one’s name in any way (first only, first and middle, full, last only, etc.).
Urgh. No edit function. Ignore one instance of ‘for changing’ in the final sentence. *facepalm*
Maybe could you change your first name on all legal paperwork, bank accounts, etc, to “Stiffler” too? So then all formal mail you get would be addressed to “Stiffler Stiffler” rather than your deadname. ♥
Your comics are delightful and your art is adorable, btw. ♥
Being a pansexual non-binary person, I get off easy (lol, see what I did there?) when labeling my sexuality. Thank you for making these educational comics. I like that I can just post them to my Facebook and let my friends and family educate themselves at their own leisure. <3 Chaoslife.
Hahaha! Snap! 😀
AH. Number 5 eloquently sums up my feelings as well. thank you for that…. also I hear you on titles. I want to go get my PhD just for that reason. I work with kids in a setting that requires titles every fecking day. D: It sucks. …. wonder if I could get them to call me reverend >:3
One shouldn’t ask for someone’s real name on the Internet anyway. Public figures might use it out of necessity, but for random people (of any sex/gender) it’s a vulnerable point for setting off many-to-one harassment if a hate mob descends – and hate mobs are pretty much random.
I always love these sort of comics on here. I mean….gender is one of those things that straight out doesn’t make much sense to me to begin with, and honestly my preferred labels for mine are things like “me” or “not any of your business” anymore. I mean, noone really used words like “agender” when I was growing up, so its nice being able to read about someone else’s experience who actually defines themself that way? Gotta say that last bit still…sort of confuses me, though I’m honestly not too sure how much needing to define that “one big problem” is a thing for me personally either. *shrugs*
Sounds like a safe time to ask more gender questions.
I’ve noticed many trans people have a negative opinion about their gendered past. One mother made the rounds on the internet a few months back when she changed her tattoo of her baby girl to a baby boy.
I know trans people who don’t even like to talk about the time when they were their former gender. (I’m sure it differs by person)
Is it common for trans people to forswear their pre-reassignment past? Is it polite to bring it up? Like when talking to a trans girl, is it polite to say “When you were a little boy, do you have transformers blah blah blah blah”?
Whoo, boy. Your line of questioning started out okay, but then it really fell hard into “dear god, no” territory. Let’s walk through this:
Is it common for trans people to not talk about their pasts? Totally depends on the person, what their comfort levels are, what situation they’re currently in (is it even safe to talk about it? could it hurt them/their careers/their relationships?) and what their past experiences have been. There’s no way to answer that question in an accurate way.
Is it polite to bring it up? No, no, dear god, no, it is not polite to bring up a trans person’s past (as it relates to their trans-ness) yourself. If they bring it up themselves and wish to talk about it, that’s fine, but it’s not your place to delve into that stuff uninvited. It’s fine to ask “hey, when you were a kid, did you like Rocko’s Modern Life?” By comparison, it’s not okay to say… Well, what you said next. Let me explain:
That last bit was a clusterfuck of a thought and exactly how you don’t talk to a trans person. As in the previous answer: don’t bring up their trans-related past yourself. Secondly, I really doubt your acquaintance is going to appreciate the phrase “when you were a little boy.” For many transgender people, they’ve always been their gender, but societal circumstances and birth assignments don’t align, just like I’ve always been agender, but I didn’t have the language or support to openly express that identity until my adult life. And finally, bringing up someone’s incorrect gender identity just to (in your example) ask if they fulfilled sexist gender stereotypes is just one big “wtf, WHY?” in my mind.
If you’re genuinely trying to better understand your trans acquaintances and be empathetic, that’s great, please take this advice and enjoy some very civil and educating conversations in the future. Just don’t fall into the nasty habit of regarding us as some sort of sideshow to gawk at and ask potentially hurtful questions to just for your own curiosity and entertainment. We’re people and deserve genuine respect.
Well said. You summed it up nicely.
I’ve recently started working through the realisation that I am some form of non-binary, probably some form of agender or agenderflux. And I wanted to thank you for your comics, because I didn’t even know this *existed* before you.
I knew transgender was a thing, but only as far as “some people afab might turn to actually be men, or visa versa”. The idea that I might have a whole spectrum of gender to find myself in never even occurred to me.
I spent most of my adult life semi-jokingly calling myself “barely a woman” or “kind of a failed woman” or “vaguely female” and somehow also never quite realising that this *wasn’t a normal thing for a cis person*.
So thank you. Really.
I know the feeling. I understood transgender from a young age, but I was almost 30 before I discovered being genderfluid was a thing, and not just me being ‘bad at being trans’. (And reading the original Agender Agenda, which I missed when it originally went up…the ‘you’re just being sexist, you can be a girl and be yourself’ came up in the same discussion where I learned that, which I thought was kind of hilarious in its presumptuousness.)
I enjoy using terms like “gynosexual” when ppl ask about sexuality. They make great faces. 😀 (Also, really love this piece. And the dressing gown!!)
We like you just the way you are Stiffler and I personally think it’s super nice of you to answer bumbling questions from well meaning, but confused people. Often we can ask a you because it’s socially safer than asking an acquaintance/ coworker/ friend. We could seriously damage a relationship there! Rev. Stiffler will just ignore us and then we’ll be no worse off than before beyond anonymous embarrassment behind a screen. You do good work Reverend.
I really appreciate your being so open about these things; I’m nonbinary too and you’re one of the only people who’s “known” with a similar (not) gender to me, so it’s kind of… validating? It just feels nice to encounter other nb people.
Also holy shit I need to look into that reverend thing what a neat hack :O
If your identity ends up drifting far from what the original “Agender Agenda” portrays… it would be super cool if you left up the whole series (with disclaimers on the old ones, I guess!) because seeing how people change over time is really fascinating. (I don’t know if this is even something I should be concerned about, just wanted to offer that opinion.)
Luckily my native language doesn’t have gendered pronouns, so it simplifies things quite a bit.
And ya know, if you work hard, you might one of the fancy titles like “Most Reverend” or “Venerable”. Though the latter might make you feel old.
First of all: Im sorry if Ill word something poorly. English is not my native language and while I use it a lot I still often struggle with finding correct way to voice my thoughts.
I love these strips. Its simply interesting to have some bit of your personality laid out here but also I like how it makes me reflect upon myself.
I guess one might say: whats so interesting in reflecting upon myself. Its not like theres anything unusual, interesting about. Im white male, straight I guess. I identify with what I am physically etc.
Well.. I just realize how little I actually care about gender, preferences and all that.
And dont get me wrong, I dont mean that I just dont give a crap about you or [whatever gender someone is] people, that I dont give a crap about the topic or the struggle. I do, even if just out of simple respect I have to another person.
I mean that I dont give a crap about MY gender and identity. I guess my identity is a beaver: I dont give a dam.
You have a dead name and I woldnt ever use it if you wouldnt want me to, but my name? I dont care. I could be given male, female, dogs name and I wouldnt care if people call me that because thats my name according to the papers so its ok. I dont care.
My sexuality is.. I think hetero.. but only because its been like that so far. I always had philosophy of “You like what you see? You wanna f** it? Go for it”. I just didnt see a penis that I would want to suck yet but if I do one day it wont be some revelation to me, that maybe Im NOT hetero after all! OHMYGOSH I dont give a damn.
My gender is.. well.. I dont really care. Im male physically. It has its perks, especially in my profession. I have male bits and thats my sex. I never made any choice in my life because thats what male would do. I always choose whats comfortable and practical. Colors, clothes, cars, friends, pets, drinks, music, movies, cartoons etc.
I always shamelessly and openly went with whatever I like. I like my little pony. But Im an adult male! Thats such unusual thing that we have to make big fuss about in media! Shut up, its a damn cartoon, who gives a crap.
If I felt like Im more feminine I wouldnt even change my clothes. I mostly wear uniform. Imho thats as agender as it gets. Yeah, girly clothes are usually decorated and thats the thing: decorations are just impractical. Womens clothes usually dont even have pockets! Whats up with that?
Yep. I identify as a beaver that doesnt give a dam.
I hope nobody will find this pun offensive. I really mean every word I said here.
Identity struggles are something I never felt and will never know. I appreciate both you and people in comments sharing their thoughts. It gives me a lot of insight into the topic while treating this subject like an adults, without constant triggering, shaming, passive aggressive attacks and accusations. (You probably can figure out which circles of the internet Im reffering to).
Cheers to all of you you wonderful, colorful, tasty people.
And its me again.
I kinda used term sexuality when I meant just the sexual orientation.
Poor wording like I stated in the beginning…
I think I feel mostly the same way.
Questions of the kind “What gender do you identify as? Male, female, agender, bigender, what?” confuse me. I don’t identify myself as a gender. Society identifies me as male, and I simply can’t be bothered to argue. Society identifies me a lots of things that I don’t have any input into, and I just accept it. I know other people do, too, and I don’t understand why gender is somehow special on the list.
The world accuses me of being male, and I plead “no contest” rather than “guilty”.
I do try to not be offensive to transgender folks, but I truthfully just do. not. get. it. And it’s been explained to me, multiple times. The classic “If you suddenly found yourself in a female body” doesn’t work on me. I’d be female then. Choice of clothing or interests wouldn’t change that.
(Random aside: I’d definitely lean toward the “male” side in terms of clothes simply because they’re more practical. Clothing MUST be practical. I don’t care about looks beyond not getting fired or arrested. In fact, under my personal definition, anything which can’t be machine-washed doesn’t even qualify as “clothes”. At best, it’s a “costume” or “equipment”.)
As an analogy, if I found out that I’d actually been born in a different country, and I’ve had different citizenship this whole time, then that would simply be the fact of the matter. Citizenship isn’t something I decide. (I can do things to ATTEMPT to gain citizenship of some country, but ultimately the decision of whether I’m a citizen or not belongs to the government of that country.)
I recognize gender as a social thing, but I don’t grasp gender as some kind of internal identity that I can determine for myself on my own. My “social maleness” is like a gift from a clueless relative. “Uh, yeah. Thanks, auntie. That’s great. I’ll just… put it on this shelf right here. I guess people who walk in will see it and think it looks nice… maybe? (I have no bloody clue what I need this for!)”
Nice to meet other people who don’t care or associate either way. I never saw what the big deal was. The gendering of society was obvious in that regard, from a young age–when you aren’t interested in it, and wonder “Why? This doesn’t fit me.”
It…doesn’t fit. It really doesn’t.
The comic made me wonder, though. It goes from talking about agender to transgender. Would an agender have a “dead name” also, or am I misunderstanding how the terms are used, here? Again, I did not grow up with this, so apologize in advance.
anyone who’s disassociated from their original gender identity and considers their name to be a part of that can have a dead name. this is the case for many nonbinary and trans folks. rae is my agender name, for example; i felt my dead name was too closely connected with a femininity that i do not posess, but to make it easier for both me and the people i love, i chose a name that is more androgynous but similar to my dead name-i’m still me, i’m just not me+gender. if another nonbinary or agender person is still comfortable with their name and its implications and baggage, that’s fine too. it’s important to ask these things 🙂 i didn’t grow up with any of this info either, i just always knew that “girl” never described me well but neither did “boy” and that i didn’t associate anything about me with either of those identities, regardless of society’s claims about mud and makeup and who’s supposed to play with what. only by asking and researching did i learn that who i am is perfectly acceptable and i’m not just “hardly female” like i always felt. for me, it was a relief to find out those feelings were legitimate.
Really interesting to learn more about what it’s like to be agender. As a generic cis guy i dont really hear about these things except through tumblr, which isnt a great source of knowledge. It’s great to get a more personal point of view.
I want to say 2 things:
1. I greatly appreciate that you take the time to make these comics that are a little insight into a very private part of your life, it really has helped me understand a friend of mine who is agender as well! They seem to have a similar want to be referred to as ‘they/them’ and I wouldn’t have guessed that something as small as calling them by their new name instead of what I met them as could be hurting their feelings or bothersome in some way! After talking to them more indepth and pointing them to your comics we have talked over tons of things that never were brought up before! It’s so nice to have something to refer to that helps us talk through some things that were hard to talk about in the first place! So thank you for making something so helpful and amazing ^w^
2. Congrats on the wedding plans moving forward! I so wish I lived near by so that we could bring gifts and the like! Donating to the gofundme doesn’t feel like nearly enough! I Hope you both have a wonderful ceremony and wish you all the best in your marriage! It’s tough after the vows are all said and done (Things change more than you would think with something so small in the grand scheme of things) But from what you have shared in comics and on your joined tumbler thinggies it sounds like you two will make a wonderful life together ^_^
I wish you guys the best and most wonderful life, and hope you both find as much love every day as when you shared your first ‘I love you’ together. All the best <3
Sorry for giant post but I wanted to cover all the things as best I could ^^;
TL;DR
Thanks for making comics of awesomeness and Yay wedding!
Wait?! Does this mean you can ordinate weddings? Cause that would be hella rad! I can totally picture you ( and K tbh) in priest a priest outfit
Just wondered. Do you still do streams from time to time, and if you do how to find out about it?
We do! We usually tell our Patrons about them first, then social media places like Twitter, Tumblr and Facebook (username FindChaos across all boards is a safe bet)! A lot of times we have some spontaneous streams if we have the time, so following us on social media is the best way to hear about those, too. And if you have Twitch, we’re FindChaosGames there and it notifies you when we’ve gone live! Hope that helps! <3
Thx for the information, and the quick reply. Sadly i cant become a patreon because of a very thight financial situation, but i still love your work. Keep it up 😉
after reading a lot of comics like this and actually doing a mental inventory of what I identified myself as; considering I don’t believe that my behavior, interests nor abilities really have any real effect on it. I never bought into gender roles and I get kinda miffed when something gets a girl version by getting a pink coat. I think I identify pretty much between agender and cis, I prefer the pronouns of my sex over “they” but I don’t feel like there’s any emotional or intellectual difference between myself and someone who say’s they’re a guy or a girl.
I snorted at the Reverend part until I remembered that most of my inner circle uses “my liege” as my title/pronouns. Started as a joke but it stuck. Gets some weird looks when we hang out with other people but I guess if someone called me Reverend in a bar that would be weird too.
“A. Stiffler” has always been Anime Stiffler in my head. Like it didn’t even occur to me that there’s an actual certificate somewhere that has a name that starts with A on it (that, you know, isn’t “anime”). I know your comics aren’t in an anime-esque style but that’s what it autocompletes to, ahaha.
(K has always been Korny, like corny with a K, because she seems like she’d tell reeeeally corny jokes idk.)
Sorry for being so dorky, Stiffler.
Also thank you for writing these. I love all of your comics because many mirror certain aspects of my life, and my friend’s lives. I have quite a few people in my life, including my amazingly awesome fiance, who are agender, and not all of them use the same pronouns and not all of them view being agender in the same way.
I would really love for Copeland to make a comic about how to deal with people who say insulting things about an agender partner/spouse/fiance/family member. Because it can be hard to toe the line between making sure the other person understands what is right and acceptable behavior, trying to get the other person to understand someone who isn’t present, and not… ah… being aggressive.
It was cool to see this expanded on. It was your original Agender Agenda strip that actually introduced me to the concept of being agender, and it was after that that I realized I’m actually agender myself. I never really knew why being called a girl bugged me so deeply for the longest time, and I knew that being called a boy wasn’t any better. It’s really only been very recently that I’ve come to fully acknowledge that I’m agender, and only even more recently that I’ve actually started to become more open about it. It’s been a tough road, and I know it’ll continue to be a tough road.
I just wanted to say your Agender Agenda strip, and this one, has helped so greatly with helping me understand my gender. For years ive experienced crippling dysphoria, but since i didnt feel like a boy, i figured i had to be a girl. I always thought that feeling the way that I did was normal, and that I was stupid and terrible anytime i questioned it.
Your strips helped me realize that there were other options out there, that i actually had no gender at all and the crushing dysphoria i felt was because of society pushing me onto gender boxes i didnt belong in.
These strips actually made me feel valid and real and it made me help understand so much about myself. And i am honestly so thankful that you made them. As hard as my identity can be to cope with at times, i would have been in a much darker place if i never learned. I legitimately felt truely happy for the first time in years the first time a friend called me “they” and used my chosen name. and i wouldnt have been able to experience that with out this comic helping me understand.
Personally, I like “Stiffler” than any other name simply because I can imagine it being shouted by a disgruntled military sergeant:
“Who stole these cookies!? STIFF-LEEEEEER!”
I think, regarding the sexual tastes question… you gots advantage! It’s like the Reverend solution. “I’m ‘happily married’, thankyewverramuch.”
As a fellow Agender person, all this is deeply reassuring to read! Society and myself are also at an impasse too.
Regarding the “and Agender person can use whatever term that suits them best!”, I was once told that because of me being Agender I couldn’t use the term “lesbian” to describe my preferences and I wasn’t to call it “Same Sex attraction” either.
This is despite me being Dfab and therefore it not being wrong from a biological standpoint, to the best of my knowledge. Not to mention it feels like the right words to use to describe my preferences for the female gender and also those particular crotch formations.
As a fellow Agender person, all this is deeply reassuring to read! Society and myself are also at an impasse too.
Regarding the “and Agender person can use whatever term that suits them best!”, I was once told that because of me being Agender I couldn’t use the term “lesbian” to describe my preferences and I wasn’t to call it “Same Sex attraction” either.
This is despite me being Dfab and therefore it not being wrong from a biological standpoint, to the best of my knowledge. Not to mention it feels like the right words to use to describe my preferences for the female gender and also those particular crotch formations.
If there is no… title (besides) reverend that describes you well, how do you feel about the slew gender “titles” that exist now? You know, the ones with all the freaky symbols.