Society’s New Rules
Ah, the internet.
Probably one of the greatest psychological experiments ever created, allowing people to reinvent society through the (almost) impenetrable power of anonymity. And since K and I usually do our damnedest to throw text-based punches against the mean-spirited, it seems only fair that we knock around the internet puritans a little bit, too. Or as it was better put:
“I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write.” – Voltaire, probably. The internet fights about that, too. Is nothing sacred? You still get the idea.
And for those who have offense at the comic, projected their own negative views onto it, or otherwise didn’t read it thoroughly:
(—For those who found their way to my blog to send mountains of hate-Anons)
Rather than address them piecemeal and clog my feed with the anons’ increasingly colorful language, I’ll summarize them in some important bulletpoints:
- “You’re speaking from a place of privilege and/or majority, you straight white cis-male.” Aw man, no. I’m a female-bodied agendered person (for those counting, that means trans*), who’s long been (only just recently legally-)married to a woman. So while the “white” part is correct, I’m otherwise part of one of the most marginalized groups withina marginalized group. I know the drawings might seem misleading.
- “You’re just using extremely ridiculous examples to make fun of real issues!” Again, no. I’m a very literal-minded person, so what we say in the comic is what you get. These were all taken from real life conversations with no hyperbole. That’s why they sound so ridiculous. For example, the very first panel about t-shirts is directly lifted from the controversy we got from the Clothes Shopping comic. That’s right, it’sliterally about clothes.
- “You don’t respect people with PTSD, triggers, mental illness, etc., etc.!” Actually, I do, I’m even married to someone with acute mental illness, and am directly related to someone with severe PTSD and actual triggers. To put it simply: the problem (and what I’m making fun of) is the people who use these terms lightly and detract from the real issuesand the real people suffering from these afflictions. The internet (and let’s all be honest, especially Tumblr) likes to speak in extremes and feelings of discomfort are no exception. When we use words with stronger connotations than our actual usage, it dilutes the impact of that word and degrades it to a farce. It’s the same way people use “I’m so OCD” or “that’s so schizo” to refer to quite the opposite or things that are not mental illnesses. That is true disrespect for those people, in my opinion.
- “You’re encouraging people to act shitty towards other people!” And we’re back to the “no“‘s. For one thing, the very first line of the Disclaimer says, “This comic is not intended to defend any person(s) looking to be purposefully contentious or emotionally damaging towards others” or to put it more simply “We’re not saying you or anyone else should be assholes towards others.” Beyond that clause and the comic’s very literal meaning (see above), I can’t control what people say, sorry. Freedom of speech will always be used and potentially abused.
- “Censorship =/= Criticism/Public Shaming/Social Pressure!”Almost, yes, but it can depend. Society often uses shaming and pressureen masse to silence opinions they don’t like, so it really depends on how far critics go and how many there are. Beside that point, when I mean censorship, I really do mean censorship. There are many words I (or my wife, or members of my family, or friends) would like to see disappear, but if those words are being used in a normal way, within the bounds of normal conversation, especially by strangers in a place where I have the option of not being present in, then I’m overstepping my bounds by insisting they permanently change their non-hateful language simply because I can’t separate intent and context from a small cluster of letters. And no, yet again, I don’t mean slurs or heavy subjects being made light of (cruelly; comedy is a wild west of topics and should always be). I mean, honest to god, words like “twist” or “hat” are not the same as historically and emotionally-charged slurs, and I think we could all take a step back on trying to link the two extremely disparate topics.
So, hopefully that clears up the most common sources of the hate mail. If you’re here to write another, double-check, because I am pretty sure I have it covered in one of those bullet-points, but if you still feel like something’s up, go ahead and send it. Until there’s something new, I’ll probably just give the screen a thumbs up and go on with my life.
Also, thanks to all of the people who have sent nice letters, especially those who actually have PTSD, anxiety issues, mental illness, etc., and understood(i.e., actually read the whole) comic and appreciated the message. That’s what I was going for, and I really hope it will give some people pause for thought before they use those terms so lightly again.
Discussion (134) ¬
<3
Ah, the internet. Where nobody knows your name, unless you do something stupid, and then everybody will find out exactly who you are, but probably forget in a couple years, so whatever.
political correctness sets a very dangerous precedent for the standards of human decency.
Political correctness is not to blame for people falling all over themselves to be victims. And what the hell is “political correctness”? You mean not maliciously talking like an asshole?
“Political correctness” lost any real meaning it may have had years ago. Now it’s just a term used by people who like to be gleefully offensive to complain that the rest of society is offended by their offensive behavior. Everyone who’s offended, they say, should shut up because they’re political-correctness brownshirts trampling on the rights of everyone else to be as awful as they want.
But since huge swaths of the Internet will side with them when they say it, it’s a great straw man to throw up.
*Thwek*
Apparently a webcomics blog on tumblr found this comic to be quite enjoyable.
“Sensitve Gray Guys”
I can’t say I’m happy with the apparent targetting of people who have trigger words, especially when I’ve had to argue with people who don’t give any shits about not triggering sexual-assault survivors.
Yes, there are people who have perfectly justifiable trigger words. I don’t think A&K are arguing that. They’re drawing attention to people who claim that perfectly mundane words are “triggering,” and yes, I’ve seen this in action. In these peoples’ perspective, any and all words are potentially triggering.
Ian sums it up just about perfectly: there are genuine issues, and then there’s the extrapolation of the concept of being offended/triggered/hurt to the point of hindering perfectly innocent discourse and devaluing the struggles of people who do have real traumas. Just like the panel in which the grey character claims to be having an anxiety attack — it’s not saying that anxiety disorders don’t exist, just that many people jump to extreme language to describe their minor discomforts.
Do you know that part of the comic where it pokes fun at people who take offence at something that is in no way offensive just so they have something to stand in the spotlight and cry about? Well you’re doing a very good job of portraying that person.
Also, I’ve never met anyone who has a real “trigger” word, if it doesn’t give you a full on Vietnam style flashback it’s not a trigger word, it’s discourse of something you feel uncomfortable with, which is fine.
Pow! Right in the kisser!
I’m a Vietnamese whose family supposedly suffered a bit of casualty in the Vietnam war, but honestly and obviously I’m not at all offended by what you said. It’s just simply logic, I think… Something like that just doesn’t make sense. You’re not supposed to get offended by someone who doesn’t mean any harm, the people who do and then go out of their way to point that out must really have something wrong with either what’s going inside their heads or their logic, if they use any logic at all.
I agree with everyone up until you, paradOx. Them’s be broad strokes. some things ARE fucked up to say, even if the speaker doesn’t think so (remember, some people are very stupid and say very stupid things.)
Ah, the ever-popular “If I haven’t personally seen it in action, it’s not a serious issue.”
Lenny, you’ll let me know when you’ve seen a mass shooting or a terrorist attack up close so I can worry about those, right?
I do not believe that is what Leonard was saying at all. Rather than while they have had people claim ‘trigger words’ as an issue to them the level of severity does not match with an actual condition. ‘Lenny’ is not claiming trigger words are ‘fake’ or anything, he even gives the terms under which he believes it is quite a significant issue. I may disagree with that cut-off point, but to dismiss it the way you have is quite fallacious and does not further the discourse to lead to social correction.
This is a long time later, but still wanted to share my two cents.
Having a stiff definition for what is “bad enough” causes many people to invalidate themselves because obviously theirs doesn’t fit the definition or someone else has it “worse”. I know, because I did this and I have come across many others who compare their issues to mine and invalidate their own.
You don’t need Vietnam level visual flashbacks for something to be triggering. There are also emotional flashbacks with no imagery, or no flashback at all but certain words or topics may cause someone to go down a dangerous and/or scary rabbit hole of thoughts.
The defining factor in my opinion is how they react to someone triggering them. Anyone who is actually triggered and not just butthurt will explain or ask to change a topic. They may not be nice, but anyone who is triggered by something common or ordinary in most circumstances will know it is not a common reaction and instead of censoring others completely will ask for it not to be talked about around them or leave themselves.
In my opinion, anyone with issues about something mundane to most people should not put any of the responsibility of their mental issues on someone else who isn’t willing.
As a Person of (cool gray #4) Color, I want to go on record as being offended by this whole thing. Okay, I’m neither gray nor offended, and I think that someday, when future generations (or future civilizations) look at this, they will gain valuable insights into how our society went off the rails. Kudos and Bravas to You for making this statement so delightfully, artfully and perfectly tailored to my ridiculously restrictive standards. t/w unsolicited affection: >smooches< to You both.
I would say it’s not a good idea to stop these people from going outside, since if you do they’ll just spend all their time on the Internet and do this even more. In fact, you should force them to go outside all the time and interact with people who they can’t be guaranteed share their views.
I’m glad I read the disclaimer ’til the end. It was hard. Gimme a medal !
Whoops. Your reply is misfiled under Max…
I have noticed that the internet is ESPECIALLY touchy lately..
Yes, the “legal disclaimer,” like everything that comes from A and K, is well-crafted. brilliant and worth reading. But wait… You should get a medal for doing what it is in Your rational self-interest to do? LOL
My previous reply was meant for DarkoNeko’s comment. Sorry for any misunderstanding…
Heh. the bluetext was my favorite part. 😀
Keep on makin’ the funny. You do it so well…
fuck you stop whining about people with real problems asking you to be sensitive toward them this comic is pee pee poo poo youre a fucking manchild
Excuse me, can you please not use poo poo. That is such insensitive language I have an ostomy bag and I haven’t taken a “poo poo” in some time.. That sort of disregard for people who have real problems is just so upsetting to me.
i had no idea how did this pass the moderation but im glad it did
Sometime’s I wish an apostrophe was a solid object that can be picked up and handled, just so I could beat someone over the head with it every time they publish a stupid rant that *doesn’t even have proper fucking punctuation in it*!
You do realize that you misused your apostrophe in that statement, right?
Wow. Thank You, Gray Person. Looks clear to me that they were talking about people who DON’T have real problems, but still demand excessive attention and validation. Or people who are just whiny babies, pretending to be “an adult.”
The authors are female…. And that is just ONE of the problems with your comment.
Brilliant as always
May I just say brilliant?
My issue with this is that it’s meant to be satire, but satire necessarily pokes fun at those in power. This comic attacks those who are marginalized. This isn’t doing anything except maintaining the status quo, so it’s just not funny.
The world beyond the Internet doesn’t have an anti-oppressive attitude. The Internet (especially Tumblr) has cultivated one, and made it a safe space for a lot of those people.
In most cases, marginalized individuals in “real life” don’t have the power to say what I’m extrapolating from this comic: “Question and be critical of your preferences”, “I don’t have the patience to explain this to you right now”, “Please be considerate of my feelings”, or “Using that offensive word contributes to oppression” — at least, not without being laughed down almost all of the time.
I’m not saying that people don’t go overboard, but you’re clearly attacking the idea of social justice or political correctness (or, in other words, being kind and considerate to people), and just isn’t sitting well.
This really sums up the problems I have with the comic, as well. You can say that you’re only targeting a specific group of people who take it too far (even though the existence of those people is debatable), but it’s not well-defined it’s a slippery slope that at worst gives people who read this internal justification to discredit anyone who is triggered or harmed in some way by terms being used. You could take a lot of sketchy comments here mocking the ideas of political correctness or being triggered or saying that it’s illegitimate unless it’s something akin to PSTD as evidence of that.
[…] “Any humor that was potentially damaging to the reader is solely the responsibility of the reader, having accepted liability through use of the above comic. Any other damages incurred by the reader, up to and including eye strain, papercuts, distraction, and general unease at having to think, should be reported immediately to the nearest wall.”
Guys, you know what to do.
Satire pokes fun at anything the satirist thinks merits having fun poked at it. Humor is not justified if it serves a social agenda; humor is justified if it’s *funny*. For many obvious reasons, jokes mocking the powerful tend to be funnier than jokes mocking the powerless — but that’s hardly a prerequisite for humor.
One of the most important life lessons I learned from Mad magazine, through my benighted childhood years of the 1970s, was that everyone is (sometimes) an idiot. Everyone is (sometimes) a hypocrite. Everyone is (sometimes) a pompous ass who deserves to be deflated. No exceptions — especially not yourself, and whatever group(s) you may deem yourself a member of. Class, race, ethnicity, gender, orientation, religion, politics… it doesn’t matter. No person, group, topic, or theme is exempt from the satirist’s pen. Any attempt to argue otherwise, that someone or something is beyond mockery — that is raw red meat being waved in front of the starving dog that is the humorist.
When you say “This comic isn’t funny because it supports the status quo”, you are basically providing fodder for the stereotype of leftists as scowling neo-Puritans, always sniffing about for some sin they can condemn. Whether something is funny or not to any given person is determined by thousands of subjective factors and personal tastes, but “This isn’t funny because it fails to serve a Higher Social Purpose!” can only be met with a /facepalm. “I don’t find this funny, because I think the complaints in the strip are realistic and sensible, and should be respected” is a more reasonable critique, in the sense that it recognizes how humor works. Your criticism, however, is based on the idea that humor is judged first on what agenda it serves, and second on if it’s funny or not — and that’s an attitude that’s ripe for mockery.
You seem to not understand what satire is.
Satire is a specific genre of literature that is defined by its social agenda: Mocking society/behavior in order to change it for the better.
It may or may not be funny, but if it is not critiquing social evils, it is by definition not satire. If it is intended to be satire, but is in fact perpetuating social evils/the status quo, then it is literally a failure of satire.
So you are saying that you consider the very concept of satire to be an attitude ripe for mockery.
It should go without saying that attempts at humor that perpetuate oppression fail at humor as well, at least with regard to those targeted. Being oppressed. Not fun. Being aware that most of the people around you give no fucks about that oppression and find your very existence hilarious. Makes you feel like complete shit. Oppressive humor makes people feel like complete shit.
“Space Balls” is a satire on Star Wars, as well as sci-fi more generally. What social ills was it critiquing?
Further, this is all so contextual. Speedy Gonzales is a rather heavy Mexican stereotype, but he consistently outwits the American cat that’s trying to eat him. Is that oppressive or not?
To Speedy Gonzales …Yes, it’s very oppressive. If someone stabs a person and then puts gauze on the wound that doesn’t mean they didn’t stab them to begin with nor does it negate the stabbing.
Lizard,
Will you marry me?
There will be people who get this comic and people who don’t.
The people who do get it will have a preconceived notion based on their own individual experiences and cultural background, but will be receptive to the notion that their their presently held opinions and beliefs could be unsubstantiated or ill-founded and will welcome the opportunity to rationally debate the concepts presented in this comic. Some beliefs will be shaken and others will be reinforced, but ultimately a lesson will be learned that shapes the individual’s psyche in a new and fascinating way.
The people who don’t get it are are just dicks.
The only problem is defining the lines between acceptable and unacceptable. I understand that this is a lighthearted comic, poking fun at minor issues, but it reminded me of just how complicated this shit can get. For example, I’m Mexican, and I’ve frequently used the word “spic” before. My friend’s make jokes about illegal immigrants or filthy spics, and I don’t bat an eyelash. We offer my Irish friend potatoes, and he pretends to beg for it.
We lynch a “Hazel Brown” beer bottle in our apartment. Our black friend laughs his ass off the minute he sees it, surprising us all when he also growls the word “niggers”.
And yet there are probably more than a few people who read that and were taken aback. Probably even disgusted by it. But it’s all perfectly acceptable among nearly all my friends. To me, that says more about people than the words. I think people need to change their own attitudes rather than language, to truly offer racial tolerance and acceptance over racial censorship and political correctness. And no, i’m not taking racial tolerance/acceptance out of context.
I’d say more, but i’m afraid that I might offend people more than I already have. I genuinely don’t want people to be hurt by anything I’ve said, but still, don’t we see anything wrong with the fact that I’m afraid to exercise my freedom of speech?
But there’s a difference between acceptable between friends and acceptable between two people who hardly know one another.
Exactly, I agree; that’s how complicated it can get. Especially when you consider how different it can be even AMONG friends, let alone strangers.
comedy hard mode: explain to me just how this is funny without being a total jackass
Are you referring to me or the comic?
I’m a childhood sexual abuse survivor. There are many varied issues involved in it. Foisting your issues onto other people via something as innocuous as language (people can make rape jokes around me all day and I somehow manage to not crawl into the fetal position) strikes me as the worst kind of victimhood mentality.
To be clear about what I mean (since those words have been done to death): victimhood mentality is when you let the role of victim become intertwined with your identity, and wave that identity in front of everyone.
I mean yeah, I know getting triggered is awful and everything and no one enjoys it, but jeez. Learn some grounding techniques. Go to a quiet place and chill out. I don’t want everyone to accommodate my issues; I want them to go away, and practicing being out in the world and being a normal person is part of how that goes.
My 0.02.
Thank you for taking the more difficult path and struggling against the mental aspects of the abuse that you’ve suffered rather than wallowing in it. You have my full respect for your courage on the matter.
I second Tom’s remark. S, with your attitude I think you would make an awesome counselor.
THIS! Exactly! I am a childhood sexual abuse survivor, as well as a rape survivor (YES, I’m one of the few men who is willing to ADMIT it), and I have tried my best to keep my issues MINE, and not push them off on anybody else. I made a choice, LONG AGO, not to remain a victim. Letting rape/molestation jokes/references render me into a curled-up, shaking mess was, to me, giving the people who victimized me an ongoing victory, and i was NOT going to let that happen. I got better. I would never even suggest that it happened quickly, or easily, but I managed to rejoin the human race.
Being triggered sucks, and it still happens to me on occasion; it probably will for the rest of my life. But I can choose how I react to it, and I choose to not wear it like a badge for everyone to see. I take it elsewhere, and deal with it on my own, or with the help of the few people I have in my life who understand what’s gone on in my life.
Stranger, I’m so proud of you. Can I have a hug?
You absolute angel
Any time someone does or says anything (or doesnt do something or doesn’t say something) it would offend someone if they knew of it. People arn’t forced to read everything on the internet but that doesn’t really solve the issue because people don’t know what its like until they read it and get offended. Thats not anyones fault. We peice together information to make sense of this world but no individual veiw is the correct one. We take the good ones and meld them with what we previously understood and we grow as people. Without being exposed to people, language and concepts then we would never move forward. Take or leave the measege this comic shows but by making it they gave you that choice. I think they made a good point and i hope they continue to put their thoughts on desplay for all to see in an uncensored expression of life as they see it.
at the last part it looks like Stiffler’s(?) head is turned 180 degrees back 0_0
Thank you! That has been bugging the crap out of me!
“use of the phrase “I’m not racist/homophobic/sexist but…”” Sorry but I don’t agree at all with that. This phrase can be used in a lot of situations, often when someone tries to “win” a discussion by insulting those who don’t think exactly like him/her. And this happens a lot. You have to read the arguments, not judge before.After all if someone is writing bullshit, it will always remain bullshit.
The problem in the phrase “I’m not racist/homophobic/sexist but…” is in the usage of the conjunction, ‘but.’ When we use ‘but’ in a sentence, it indicates that everything stated before the ‘but’ can be ignored, or may be an outright lie. It is useful to consider that a sentence, in any language, can be interpreted and reduced in a similar method to the algebraic reduction of an equation. When someone asserts, “I’m not racist/homophobic/sexist but ,” this has to be reduced for interpretation to take place. First reduction: “I’m not racist/homophobic/sexist but I am someone who holds at least one racist/homophobic/sexist opinion.” Since a racist/homophobe/sexist is, by definition, someone who holds racist/homophobic/sexist opinions, the second reduction is “I’m not racist/homophobic/sexist but I am racist/homophobic/sexist.” Stated in another way, “I am X, but I am not X,” which is a contradiction. Back in the 1960s, the Black Panther Party was pointing out contradictions in our society, and I think that A and K are doing exactly that, and doing it very well.
If someone includes in one of the categories something that is just common sense, you have to use the “but”. Let’s take an example: in Spain the Zapatero government made a law against violence against women, that apart of not working (the problem just became bigger) is based on some absurd points: presumption of guilt for the men accused, preventive detention and impossibility for the fathers to see their sons even after being absolved. Now if I say “I’m not sexist or against laws to eradicate violence, but that’s fucking shit”, I don’t think I’m doing nothing wrong.
Show, don’t tell. If You say, “I’m not sexist, but the anti-violence-against-women law should be repealed,” I will assume that You are one of those misogynistic people who thinks a women can be treated however a man chooses to treat her. Why else would You bring sexism into the conversation? If on the other hand, You were to say, “There are real problems with the Violence Against Women Law, and we need to make these modifications” and go on to list Your proposed changes, I may or may not agree, but the issue of whether or not You are a sexist is not on the table — at least not yet.
That’s the point. You should never assume anything before knowing the reasons (aka before listening to what someone is saying).
About the example, let’s imagine the dialogue:
Person1: “The government in Spain made a new law, it was about time!”
Person2: “That law is horrible and full of bullshit, they should do another one!”
Person1: “Why you don’t like it? It’s because you are sexist! If you are against a law to combat violence you are sexist”
Person2: “I’m not sexist and I’m not against a law against violence, but THIS law should be abolished and replaced because blablablablabla…”
My mother used to describe one of her co-workers as “she’s black BUT she’s a good worker”. I asked her why she said BUT. I know many people that are good workers and a few that are lazy. I think they have different skin colors but that doesn’t seem to affect how hard they work. I finally managed to explain it to her and she stopped saying it. Probably still thinks it though. It’s hard to think differently than the way you were raised. Except I managed to think differently than my parents. Don’t know how I managed that BUT glad I did.
This is the worst thing on the internet.
I’ve encountered some people like that and end up wanting to throttle them. It’s like people who use migraines as an excuse to hide from life or, worse yet, claim they have a migraine when they haven’t got a clue what a real migraine is. I knew a woman who suffered from the real deal and wouldn’t be able to stand up some days, but she’d bust her ass every other day of the week, no excuses.
“I don’t mean slurs or heavy subjects being made light of”
Ah crap, I imagine that might have been due to my comment. Sorry Stiffler.
For all my years of dealing with my personal triggers and mental illness, I gotta say I liked this. There seems to be a faction of the internet that reduces all social justice issues to semantics and semiotics without a broader context. Which can bring the discussion to a standstill as much as someone going out of their way to be “politically incorrect” (a.k.a push buttons for the hell of it.)
It’s the “zero tolerance” approach, and it’s adopted because it’s easy. You don’t need to look at context, the relationship of those in the conversation or the many other social signifiers. You just scan for certain words and denounce.
This is generally the set of rules every tumblr feminist holds to
I love how this is clearly written by a liberal, criticizing the attitudes of liberals yet falsely attributing them to non-liberals.
This video covers the same topic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu21P7qVxY8
I FEEL PERSONALLY OFFENDED BY THIS AND BY YOUR EXISTENCE. I ONLY SKIMMED AND DIDN’T BOTHER TO READ MOST OF IT, ESPECIALLY THE CHUNK OF TEXT AT THE END BECAUSE READING IS HARD (ALMOST AS HARD AS SENSIBLE USE OF CAPSLOCK) BUT I FIND THIS OFFENSIVE AND IT IS THEREFORE UNACCEPTABLE. IT IS HOWEVER ACCEPTABLE AND EVEN DESIRABLE FOR ME TO SPEW VITRIOL AT YOU. GO FIND A PILE OF KITTENS AND DIE OF CUTENESS SURROUNDED BY TINY BUNDLES OF SUNSHINE AND LOVE YOU HORRIBLE PERSON YOU.
I AM FRUSTRATED BY YOUR POINT OF VIEW AND INSTEAD OF CONSIDERING YOUR POINT OF VIEW REASONING MY OWN OR USING PUNCTUATION I HAVE DECIDED THAT YOU ARE THE WORST POSSIBLE THING EVER AND WILL EXPRESS THAT THOUGHT IN A POORLY WORDED AND GRAMMATICALLY INCORRECT RESPONSE ~kisses, Fillyphil
Instead of spending time writing my story to reach a deadline, I have discovered this phenomenal comic and archive binged.
Needless to say, I love your comic! The humour is just my style, but overall I like the artwork the best. I really don’t know how to express it, but there is just something about the art style that I’m really drawn (pardon the pun) to.
Keep up the great work!
You know, this kinda reminds me of the glorious moment in one of my remedial courses for the visually impaired. Four of us were walking around a shopping mall near our course center, joking about blindness etc. as one does to stay relatively sane.
A young woman started berating us for joking about “a serious condition that affects thousands” and how we should be more sensitive to our surroundings since there is a course center for the blind and visually impaired in the neighborhood. What if one of the people from the center heard us? We should feel ashamed etc. etc. At this point the councilor we were there to meet arrived and told us to take out our mobility canes so we could begin our training for the day.
The shift in expression on that woman’s face, from indignant anger to a large case of WTF… priceless…
I know she was only doing what she thought was best, but I do reserve the right to laugh at silly situations. Because if you can no longer laugh, you are on a highway to self-destruction.
And for what little it’s worth, there are words that I can’t even say out loud and hearing them unprepared can give me an all-mighty panic attack. But that’s my problem and I can’t imagine forbidding other people from using them.
To be honest, even though it can get overwrought, I think this whole thing is indicative of a step forward in people’s understanding. We wouldn’t be *having* this conversation if people hadn’t (finally) started to get that privilege is a thing, and that the language of the majority is full of casual slights and microaggressions.
So that’s good. Maybe this current phase can be seen as teething troubles?
I don’t know. I agree to an extent but god, I wish people tried to have a normal debate before literally dog piling on others. For example, I recently debated with a guy on Tumblr about his opinion on a subject involving women and him incorrectly stating that basically liking make-up and pink immediately weakens a female character. I calmly explained to the dude why he was looking at things the wrong way and he actually apologized and admitted he could see that he hadn’t seen it my way because he was a man but completely understood my point. At no point did the conversation fall into insult slinging, and he seemed like a genuinely nice (if misguided) person.
Great, right?
Except more than one person replied to his honest, legit apology he posted after with frothing, angry responses about what a horrible human being he was and how dare he say any of what he said in the first place. And I sat there kind of horrified because the guy had come from a good place (actually trying to understand feminism) and people turned around and treated him like he was a monster. At that point it’s like…what is that accomplishing? What if I hadn’t actually calmly talked to him about the subject? No understanding probably would’ve happened, just a lot of screaming. :/
People are stupid, get over it.
I love you guys so much. You’re so reasonable. <3
Why am I thinking of Kankri
Please accept my warmest mountains of abuse. I enjoy BPD and it doesn’t half make me crazy when people start going mental because someone made an insane joke about something nuts. (True story).
Good work, white people!
Unfortunately, many people THINK they are you, and that I am the grey character, but they are so fucking wrong they have no idea. As a trans person, I’ve done a fair bit of calling out stuff on the internet in my time, and almost everyone reacted in an incredibly dismissive way along the lines of “stop overreacting”.
As a trans* person yourself, you probably know: I was NOT overreacting.
This wasn’t about trans* people, unless you’re talking about the people who claim to be transethnic or transabled, which is a ridiculously trollish concept. This was about exactly what it gave examples of.
I have had my share of hatred and misunderstanding for being trans*, so I know where you’re coming from, but I don’t appreciate the people who turn the label trans* into a punchline by extrapolating the concept beyond any real substance (such as in cases of being “transabled” — where a person is born able-bodied, but says they’ve always “felt” blind/deaf/paraplegic). It’s not a magical “I wish I was-” badge that gives them free reign to act oppressed, troll and generally mock real trans* people.
Otherwise, I’m sorry for you having to argue about your gender. I wish more folks could understand common respect, but the people I gave examples of in the comic are making it harder for the general populace to even take us seriously, let alone sympathize.
You need to realize that your comic is and will be used as justification for people who believe that violent slurs, denial of transgender people’s experience, and harassment of rape survivors is “innocuous conversation” and that “tumblr social justice” is a monstrous agent of censorship for drawing attention to the shittiness of that behavior (which is censorship how?). Actually, people who have shown up in the comments praising you have done just that.
If you do not understand that, and understand that you are in fact responsible for obvious, predictable effects of the art you produce, and that disclaimers cannot absolve you of that (they just prove you knew the consequences of what you were doing, just like any “I’m not a ______, but” disclaimer), then the person not mature enough to be on the internet is you.
I think you’ve failed to learn the meaning of “innocuous” — for what it’s worth, it means not harmful or threatening. It is exactly what it means, both in the comic and in life — conversation and opinions that are completely harmless, such as saying “I like T-Shirts” or “I have hair.” It is not something you can casually slip rape and oppression into, however much you want to be offended. And I never said a word about Tumblr Social Justice, or any social justice, just idiots that like to wear their Victim Badge with made-up problems like thinking T-Shirts are evil and oppressive.
As for people taking the comic and interpreting for themselves: that’s not something we, or any comedians, can control. Saying that we need to censor ourselves completely from topics just because some idiot somewhere will twist the joke out of context, into their own hateful agenda, is ridiculous and the very essence of thought crimes. You (and the people twisting this into some sort of hate speech-enabling tool) are essentially playing out the very first panel of this comic; we’ve presented something light-hearted and straightforward, and it’s being extrapolated out of context into something far more sinister. If you (or they) can’t appreciate the irony in that, I can’t really help you.
K Here: I’ll weigh in on this one, too, since I recently (quite unrelated to anything) talked about just this subject. To copy what I wrote:
When someone says: “this could be taken a different way, other than it was intended, so it’s bad.” I think of book and music burnings. A lot of things are used as excuses to hurt others. I was raised that it is deplorable to limit their access, their creation, or their creators based on bad people, however. Catcher in the Rye and Helter Skelter were used as excuses to *murder* people, multiple times. But that does not justify banning them. Bad people will always find something to blame or lean on. It is not the fault of the other people they are poorly using.
In essence, perhaps the maturity lies in someone who has the ability to see that banning, or limiting discussion of topics, has never solved problems. It just limits humanity by proxy, and turns real issues into a blame-game.
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So, I wasn’t going to ask this, since I think it’s a self-evidently stupid question, and I’m only asking it because you called it out again in the comments… are “twist” and “hat” *actually* words people have found a rude/offensive/insulting meaning for? If so, do I even want to know in what contexts? (And if I’m missing the point that any random word can be taken that way, and those words, in particular, aren’t the focus of anything, then, we’re back to “I’ve asked a stupid question”, and I apologize for wasting your time.
Rude, offensive, and insulting? Possibly — I’ve never heard them used as actual slurs, however — your initial reaction of “any word can be taken that way” is more accurate for Internet Logic these days, to the point of people giving TW on mundane words. “Twist” came up in conversation to be censored (forever) on my blog because someone was “triggered” from having an “Indian Burn” when they were children — their arm was twisted, and apparently the trauma from it means I was no longer allowed to say it in context of a movie, comic, etc.. I honestly can’t make this kind of rhetoric up, just have a look at TumblrInAction sometime. I don’t mind putting a TW on things like rape, murder, small children being hit in the head with puppies, etc., — but when it comes to every day words in boring contexts, the endless stream of people asking for different words to be put out forever gets very restrictive very quickly.
By the way; you guys rock.
It needed to be said.
I’d like to offer this contribution by John Cleese on this very topic:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klu1SCueDow]
Why does making mundane words into “triggers” sound like world class attention wh*ring?
I mean, really, someone who is so delicate that saying “twist” puts their knickers in a twist? Shenanigans. They found out that crying “trigger ” got them special attention. Just maybe, they should get over their sense of entitlement, and go do something for other people. I understand soup kitchens and homeless shelters are always looking for volunteers.
Eh, whilst over-sensitivity can be a pain, this cartoon just seems like it’s decrying people who have a different set of social norms.
The “have a party” one seems particularly egregious. I mean, not everyone likes parties, and they’ve absolutely got every right to not like parties. They aren’t hurting anyone by not liking parties.
Furthermore, some people just don’t like to talk about their opinions, and challenging someone is an aggressive thing to do. It’s unusual for it to be anything more than a dick waving competition, no matter how valid the issues. There’s nothing wrong with not being combative when it comes to opinions. A lot of people would prefer to read up on things, and form their own opinions and keep them to themselves.
I guess the problem is you’re are painting very contextually-specific issues with massively broad brush strokes. Saying that they are taken from real conversation that happened doesn’t change this: it just means this is just makes it a personal attack on four specific people.
So yeah, this cartoon just seems, ironically, a bit oversensitive.
K Here: I don’t like parties. I’m a very introverted person. However, specifically, the comic is poking fun at those that get upset at other people that they know nothing about for having a party. I’ve seen it in action, not just on Tumblr, but also on Reddit, where I witnessed someone saying that not only should parties be banned, but also any social get-togethers that come within close proximity of an introvert including Improv Everywhere and baby showers. So no, they’re not hurting anyone — but they’re being ridiculous, and comedy points out the ridiculous.
As far as “challenging” someone with an opinion — the only time I see that mentioned in the comic is with the queer allies panel. If someone is enough of braveheart to tell me they don’t support my lifestyle, I (and anyone else) has the right to ask them why. You’ll notice Stiffler’s character isn’t even being aggressive about it — asking a simple question in response to someone should not be so offensive of a challenge. If they choose to take it that way, however, we have no control over it and will probably just move on to someone less mentally unstable.
As for your comment about painting very contextually-specific issues with broad strokes: Yes. That’s what comedy does. It’s the nature of comedy. I’d direct you to Kids in the Hall’s Artist Model skit, but I fear it might overwhelm your sensibilities if it did not have a 7-foot long disclaimer at the end. It isn’t a comedian’s job to use kid gloves, and I hope it never gets to that point. Taking things out of context will always happen, but saying we should no longer poke fun at, write about, or say anything because it may be taken out of context or that the broader implications are not realized is reminiscent of how book burnings (and further back, witch hangings) start.
In response to your oversensitive jab: I guess it is. I suppose, as a sufferer of mental illness, I don’t like people making light of very real issues like mental illness by trying to play them up to be something they’re not. Quite honestly, I don’t give two shakes of a lamb’s tail if I’m oversensitive: at least I have the good sense not to make up conditions like otherkin, headmates and trans-abled. That’s more worrying to me than being offended at these idiots.
In closing:
Thank you for this. Lately I feel this very strongly.
Being intolerant when people are being jerks (yay!) has somehow morphed into just generally being intolerant (boo). And somehow no one notices that general intolerance is how we got ourselves into a sexist, -phobic mindset in the first place.
“You’re speaking from a place of privilege and/or majority, you straight white cis-male.” Aw man, no. I’m a female-bodied agendered person (for those counting, that means trans*), who’s long been (only just recently legally-)married to a woman. So while the “white” part is correct, I’m otherwise part of one of the most marginalized groups withina marginalized group. I know the drawings might seem misleading.
^ within a
P.S. your cool.
OH Internet. You’re so funny and whacky.
I love this comic because it exudes (I hope that’s not a trigger word) the humor I can appreciate and associate with. People are always offended and lately thanks to a nation full of hand holding don’t say this, don’t say that you’ll be taken to court mentality, people take things way too far.
I shared this comic on Facebook. My profession is helping people stay safe from violence and crime and how to deal with conflict. Unfortunately, this means I often run across ‘weaponized victimhood’ so these strategies to bully, intimidate and control people are well known to me.
I particularly like your addressing the ‘You’re…’ attacks by pointing out exactly why you do understand these issues.
Well done
I’m not sure that it would be possible to achieve a comparable level of pure awesome without risking damage to the space-time continuum. This is so great – I’m sharing it with everyone I know.
Why do I read comments on the internet? I don’t usually but sometimes the scroll bar slips. I found this comic amusing and reassuring. In fact it is not just this strip, but the whole comic. I have found much more comfort and confidence in my agendered identity after reading about ya’lls adventures in irl. Please continue keepin’ it real
Have I mentioned you guys are the greatest? I think I need to mention that again. Maybe a word does “trigger” you, but when you get to the point of insisting the words straight up shouldn’t exist and no one should use them ever? Nooo…
I just wanted to drop a line and let you know how much I love all of your comics. I relate with them frequently and I find myself learning from them nearly every time. And I love that you can combine education and laughter together through sharing your own vulnerability with us, your audience. Thank you.
I love this comic, and it really bugs me when people overuse trigger warnings or claim they’re mentally ill or a minority when they’re really not, because it makes it harder for people who are actually triggered or oppressed to be taken seriously.
Awful
Terrible.
you should work at zenpencils
I lost it at the disclaimer. That was pure gold supporting an already awesome comic. 🙂
My trigger is laughter…. And this was freaking hilarious and made me laugh.
People need to understand that there is a huge difference between a word that sometimes upsets you, and a legitimate trigger word. I’ve seen ‘Trigger word/warning’ thrown about a lot, and it’s quite sad that people aren’t educated about this very much.
I have two trigger words, both words are thankfully almost never used, but I wouldn’t push people who I don’t know not to say them. It’s not my place to do so :/ Friends, yeah. Strangers on random websites, nope.
Even though this does seem to put people who have/think they have trigger words into one box of shame, people should remember that not everybody shamelessly calls ‘trigger word’ on things, I sure as hell feel really bad if I have to remind my friends of it, but they understand so, I guess that’s a +1.
so… lunch meat….huh?!
interesting hobby, slapping slices of dead animal against each other…
Well, the store was fresh out of babies, so you make due with what you got.
I find it funny that this comes right after the one where someone called you a liberal bi***. As a conservative (Borderline libertarian) myself, anyone who draws this well, is this funny, uses normal people logic, and is against things like CISPA and unnecessary censorship sounds like a really good person to me. I can’t see where anyone would have a problem with you. Keep being awesome.
The fact that you had to put such a long and all-inclusive disclaimer after a webcomic (or any disclaimer at all) really says a lot about some of the people who reside on the internet (Internetians? Interwebsters? Interblargerbaters?) Some people need to grow a sense of humor.. Keep up the awesome work.
I’ve gotten into the habit of censoring almost everything I say before I say it and slipping ‘escape phrases’ in so that if confronted I can attempt to clarify and control the reaction.
My comments tend to be simple and attempt to leave little room for argument.
9/10 comments I create I delete before posting because I worry someone might take them the wrong way.
I enjoy ChaosLife and appreciate the effort put into it.
For what it is worth, i have a debilitating anxiety disorder, without my meds i’m pretty useless and even with them some days are really rough. In no way did i find your comic demeaning to my illness, i understood what you were saying, and i happen to agree. Cheers.
Do people want to risk offending a person and then be harmed? Can violence be tolerated? Unfortunately violent people don’t fucking care. That is the risk when you communicate with humans. My dog doesn’t give a shit what anyone thinks. He won’t get offended by words but with eye contact. He don’t give a shit like honey badger! My thing is that we tolerate so much crap from our pets and wild animals as soon as a human acts like one and many of us do we have these laws and rules that fuck these peoples lives up or worse.Humans are animals right? So anyone with weapons or police forces money is highly evolved? Highly evolved beings or creatures are fucking evil! Dumb creatures have no chance anyway there going to fuck themselves up some way, but risk taking is fun sometimes and might be smarter. Some neuoro scientists have said the key to advancing the human race is to be more right brained. Being more emotional and sensitive less violent. It could very well be bullshit also but compassion is very important. I think if we become too sarcastic we could arouse violence and hey you might need you ass kicked and you might even enjoy it but that doesn’t mean the cops have stick their noses in every little thing. It might not be nice for some viewers to see violence but look at nature. Mother nature might be on to something and so much behavior seems unnatural. I feel more like an ape than ever after visiting this internet thing so be carful what you say to a honey badger and pay attention to how dogs look at you! The guy with the
Shit always wins. No matter what and something bigger comes along. Unless something random happens. I have a feeling.like what could be going on while you are staring at a screen? There could be some shit happening while you observe text whatever it is you guys do. My advice is to look away from the screen more often. Please.
Wut?
yeah…I think tumblr’s now labeled every form of human activity offensive. we’re supposed to sit in cocoons or something and communicate only in formulaic missives assembled from grammatical elements rubber stamped by the Council of Feelings. oh, also we’re supposed to repost art with the attribution removed, I guess.I think it must be the same cognitive screw-up that turns people into grammar nazis–they start acting like the shape a message takes is more important than what the message means and create a culture of elitism based around most precise adherence to whatever set of arbitrary rules of allowed and disallowed werds is.
not saying people should be dicks. I’m saying if one more straight girl tells me I’m not allowed to call my gay-ass self a faggot because that’s offensive I’m taking her off my scissoring sext list.
There needs to be a like button. I enjoy irritating my family by laughing just about every five seconds! So it would be great if I could show you my appreciation for all the laughs! 🙂
PTSD to the point of diabled bi-polar feminist queer here,and i endorse this comic.
Great cartoon, and greater response. It’s especially potent coming from a member of one of the marginalised groups that these people claim to be standing up for.
Being straight, white, male, cis, and able-bodied, any thoughts I have on these matters are written off as “mansplaining” and the like. Thanks to all that privilege, I can actually go on with my life quite easily despite being ignored, but it’s nice to know it’s not just us highly privileged that can see the absurdity of some of these stances.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7771818/Butt-Hurt-Report-Form
Awesome. Hilarious. I got completely sidetracked at the sounds of lunch meat. It occurred to me that different lunchmeat must make different sounds. I started mentally creating an experiment. Varying factors: types of lunch meat such as ham (very floppy) versus salami (rather stiff), thickness of slice, temperature of specimen… Yeeeeeeah… I should probably back away from the keyboard… And NOT rush out anywhere near the deli… Of course the best experiments are the ones you can eat when you’re done 🙂
Love this so. X)
I think you are my spirit animal and I totally agree with what has been expressed in this comic. FINALLY, someone who put it in words! Thank you for this and have a lovely day. =)
So THIS is where this came from! I’ve seen it on Tumblr but had no idea who made it. I found you guys cause Homo Hint was on Tumblr recently and thankfully actually had a link to here.
Man you two are awesome <3
I enjoy the thought you put into these types of comics, as well as the humorous ones (the two are not mutually exclusive of course, as shown here.) I hope you continue on in your good work for a long time to come. <3
I will never not enjoy this comic.
Gives. Me. Life.
Ironically (or rather, predictably ?), the hate mail senders probably are the one that can’t bother reading all the text.
Tumblr in a nutshell…
Y’know, this is the most boring, basic a** sh*t a person could possibly say but:
You are really awesome and I like what you do so keep doing it.